ClearDebt reveals debt data from Apex and DCM Money client database

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according to the administrators when i spoke to them a few weeks ago, money had been found in the 'client' account, this is the money that apex or dcm were saving so they could make an offer to creditors for a full and final settlement, however they did not say how much there was or if we would get any of it back, experience tells me not to hold my breath, any comments welcome,
Mike.

if we are not going to get anything back is it worth us filling out the claims form that the administrators have sent,and if so do clearDebt know what the balance in these account so that we can claim

mark,

the form you will need to complete, there are also resoultion you will need to agree or disagree with.

There is one spot tho that you will need to insert a value of which you know is outstanding to you.

You will need to put a claim together and must be able to substantiate it. See my comment above, and see the link above that if you need some help there are some people on there that can help you.

It not really fair asking joe public to fill in these forms when they do not know how to arrive at some of the answers. Mine to had the wrong name on it my name was ryan can you believe it.

And all of this has to be in writing and sent and recieved by 10th May 2011. So not a lot of time. Letter says 21st April on it but all the bank holidays and easter didnt really help

Andrew has asked me to provide a basis guide for what information you should provide when completing the statement of claim form to send to the Administrator of APEX/DCM

First of all Complete the Statement of Claim which can be obtained from the Administrator HJS Recovery – apexdcm@hjsrecovery.co.uk

Attach to the statement of claim all supporting documents you can locate to support your claim.
Examples of documents to provide are:-
1 - Copy bank statements showing what payments have been made.
2 - Copy of any correspondence received from APEX/DCM - Statements, letters emails etc
3 - Copy of all correspondence you have sent to APEX/DCM
4 - Any other information which you believe is relevant to your claim

This supporting information will not only substantiate any claim you have against APEX/DCM but it will be used by the Administrator as supporting evidence when he submits his report on the conduct of the directors of the company to the Department for Business Innovation and Skills.

The more supporting evidence showing any misconduct by the directors the greater chance there is of the Insolvency Service conducting an Investigation into the affairs of the company and its directors. This could ultimately lead to the directors being disqualified from acting as a directors for a period between 2 - 15 years.

Also if the Administrator or any subsequent liquidator appointed in this matter is able to recover sufficient funds to enable a distribution to unsecured creditors in the future then you will need to have a valid claim submitted to be able to receive any dividend which is then paid.

I will be intouch with cleardebt, i have just recieved my claim form and do not have a clue where to go from hear, peoeple such as myself who are not up on the leagal aspects are left wondering what now,

Over on Money SAving Expert MikeJ posted this:

"To all the representatives to all the debt management companies that are undoubtfully reading this thread, before i go quiet for a little while heres a LITTLE point i wish to raise in connection with the last paragraph of post 477. It would be very good to take notice of this bit of advice.

We are currently going through tougth economic times and these times will provide you with an abundance of clients, unfortunately for you this part the business cycle will not last forever. So what you have to understand is this.

When times get better the number of clients you can potentially have will reduce and when they do reduce you will have to fight a lot harder and longer to get them.

Might i suggest you treat your clients well in these tough times because when the time comes when things get better thats when your recession will come.

People dont have the short memories that you think, not in the internet age.

just a thought"

(it's post 476 on this page: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/s... )

This is a little aside, but - I hope a useful one. The debt business isn't cyclical. We get clients whether the economy is going all guns blazing or sinking without a trace. Why? because people only get credit when economic times are good. When belts get tightened, the banks shut up shop.

And, the bluer the skies, the more likely banks are to take risks on lending to someone who might have problems repaying.

What actually happens (we think about 80% of the time - the rest are "shop-until-you-drops" that give consumer debtors a bad name) is that someone gets credit (we don't save anymore) confident they can repay and then life changes (economic shock - the economists call it) and takes 18 months to two years to realise that they can no longer afford their debt. An economist might say that debt is a "lagging indicator". Then - they take action. As the economy moved in fairlly short cycles, traditionally it was thought debt problems coincided with recesion. However, the noughties strong economy gave the lie to that - personal debt figures rose in a strong growth economy.

It appears that, in an economy, like ours, led by consumer spending, there's nothing certain but debt and taxes.

whats the best number to call him on

Hmmm... I have questions about the administrators' approach as advised above - which I hope someone more technical than me might answer...

First, if a DCM client's creditor(s) is/are still adding interest and charges to the amount owed after any contributions have been paid this will change the current creditor balance shown in DCM's records but will,I presume, not be amounts that DCM would be liable for (as the creditor added them - some people's debt levels have gone up, remember)? This is definitely a question - views anyone...

Then, Is the final balance accurate? I'm of the view it may not be - and that in some cases it represents a balance taken when the debt was sold by a client's original creditors to debt collection agencies and that it may not have been updated since. So (question) - is it a figure worth using?

My concern (and again this is a question and I'd welcome advice from one of our professionals - or any professional in fact :) ) is this:

Say you owed £20,000 at the start of your arrangement and that had decreased by £2,000 to £18,000 when the final balance was taken. You've paid DCM £10,000. The calculation above would, I think, mean you were showing that you were owed £8,000.

Fine and dandy

But, say you owed £20,000 at the start of your arrangement and that had risen to £22,000 when the final balance was recorded. You've paid DCM £10,000. The calculation above seems to assume that DCM become responsible for any increase in debt that's occurred (a legal point i guess - but that's definitely another debate). The calculation suggested by the administrators and, I guess (I've not seen it), incorporated in mikej's spreadsheet would show that you were owed £12,000 - £2,000 more than you had paid in.

That, much though many might wish it to be the case, doesn't seem like something the administrators would agree to? (it's a question - not a statement - which I'd love to be clarified by those who know - I'd rather expose my ignorance here than have anyone go away with the wrong conclusion).

Final question: would it not be more prudent at this stage, and especially given the unknown unknowns (thanks Don Rumsfeld) about what debt balances actually are) for those ex DCM clients who want to prove their debts simply to provide the administrators with a statement of what was paid in, backed by bank statements, etc. If you try to work out your own balances, you could get them dreadfully wrong - because the information you have is not accurate and, as you've done the work, the administrators might (yes - this is a question...) be able to deny responsibility for getting the figure right, as you've told them what you believe you are owed rather than waiting for them to do the sums?

Any views on any of that?

After having a quick read of the Administrators report, it looks like that asset realisations are going to be minimal without detailed investigations and may be without any real prospect of success, without a litigation fund this may not be something that the Administrator wants to pursue. In addition any recoveries are likely to be extremely costly and more than likely absorbed by professional fees.

It appears that the Administrators when they have finished administrating Apex DCM will want to compulsory liquidate this company and allow the Official Receiver to take office as Liquidator, therefore any creditors claims will ultimately have to be agreed with the Official Receiver. If there is not going to be a dividend then there is no requirement for the Official Receiver or Liquidator to formerly agree or adjudicate on any claims received.

This was posted on Money Saving Expert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildlife
Dear All,

Have read many of the threads. My Husband is in the same boat as many of you today. He has had the forms from Clear debt which arrived on Saturday, before I saw this forum. He signed the paper work to start a IVA. But I have nagged him to go to the CAB to ask for more advice on this matter. He said we have a cooling off period of 30 days before the payments will start to be collected. Maybe this way will be cheaper than dealing with the companys who is in debt to. I really don't know. Its all above my head really. I have mentioned to him many times over the past few years especially when well over 5 years had gone by. No statments. The debt folks calling asking where their monthly payments were.
My hubby would say to me its all sorted DCM were doing a good job. Burying his head in the sand and not sorting it. The debts are his. But the whole family are now very concerned.
I think going to CAB this week will help him sort things. Its done so we have to go forward.
Sorry for rambling, but I needed to get this down and out, with others in the same situation

Thankyou .
Regards Wildlife

mikewjones from wales then said:

thats alright we are all here to support one another.

I would get a second opinion on what you have been told from cleardebt.

Go to CAB, CCCS."

I am choosing to post a response here and hope Mike will see his way to ensuring fair play on MSE - where I'm happy to post general advice, but cannot, unfortunately, defend the position of the company I work for.

First, I absolutely endorse Mike's view that it's good to get a second opinion and that Citizen's Advice and CCCS are good places to go.

However, I'd like to say that the poster above, if an IVA has been put forward as a solution, will have been advised by someone who has the Certificate in Debt Resolution (210 hours study, three tough exams) and who has years of experience - ask your CCCS or CA advisor what qualifications they have...

I am absolutely confident that, if we have recommended an IVA, that it will be the most appropriate advice for the client. It will usually mean that a significant amount of the debt will be written off when the client completes the arrangement and, of course, all interest and charges will be frozen the moment the person goes into the IVA.

If CA or CCCS recommend debt management - you should ask why. Why should an IVA, with legal certainty and freedom from creditor action, be replaced by a scheme with no debt write-off and no certaintly of a freeze on interest/charges? There are many people for whom debt management is the right answer - but this is rarely true where an IVA is possible.

If CA recommend debt management - then, is it one of the ones where they will make distributions to the people you owe? Or is it a DIY plan, as many are, where you are reliant on making distributions yourself: These, I believe, often fail.

Free advice is not always good advice.

I doubt a Debt Relief Order (DRO) was an option in this case, as they rarely overlap with possible IVAs. But, bankruptcy might have been - and the choice between the two is often a personal one. Remember, bankruptcy is less commonly the "get out of jail free" card it used to be ( http://bit.ly/iO62ja ).

CCCS might offer an IVA too. But, if they do, it won't cost any more or any less than an IVA offered by ClearDebt - as we only ever charge "industry standard" or protocol compliant fees. So, there's no reason to change.

Incidentally, have you seen the reviews we get for our service on comparison site IVA.com ( http://bit.ly/jFh7xz ) We are proud of what we do for people.

Hi Mike,

Andrew is out of the office today so I wanted to respond.

I, with all of my colleagues, understand many people affected by DCM have most likely lost their trust in debt management companies and worry they will be fooled again.

ClearDebt are genuinely different. We are an honest and ethical company. All of our staff train in Cert DR – a qualification developed by trade body, Debt Resolution Forum, and we always ensure the most appropriate advice is given to people – even if that means bankruptcy or assistance from the CAB.

I recognise that you are untrusting of other organisations now and trust is something which has to be earned – we have done that and the reviews of our service and support on iva.com (an impartial website) is testament to that.

I give you my word and that of my colleagues that the testimonials from clients on iva.com are all genuine – you can also check this with iva.com themselves as this is evidenced with them.

The space here on our community is also proof of the work we do to communicate and help people with financial worries. We strongly believe helping people with their debt is not just about suggesting the most appropriate debt solution but also about reaching out and providing them support, guidance and faith about their future. We put great effort into providing useful information here – free - and in our blog to connect with people and help them move forward regardless of whether they are a client of ours.

Finally, with regards to the poster on MSE who mentioned she thought her husband had a 30 day cooling off period – I ask that you kindly let her know about the posts made here in reference to her situation and that her husband call us as soon as possible.

Many thanks

Andrew,

There is a person on the MSE forum that might benefit from your advice.

Can you read latest entries on page 28.

If you cannnot post advice on there send to me and i will send to her directly.

mike